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| Author | Crusader Battle Penn.36 |
AngusofDarkmoon
Drommenstrengsal
Posts: 770 Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 05:42 PM
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Quote:
| Black if non-Knight, and sometimes brown if a serjent but non-fighter.
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Wait a minute, y'all let me run around in a brown habit all those years before I was knighted and nobody told me that Brown was for non-fighting serjeants!?! Was my prowess off that much? 
_________________
"Exspes admonitu, Exspes Paentio"
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Dancingbear
Plebian
Posts: 17Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 12:50 PM |
Brother Bran, if I may use such a title, since the Templars had given up titles of Lord, if ever they held one.
I thank you for your clarification of the whole SCA Templar persona, although the wearing of any item that was flashy (read- gold chain) would have been in direct contradiction the rules laid done for the Warrior Monks to adhere to. 
I do agree with you, it is all in good fun, and the major portion of anything related to the Military Orders or the Crusades for me is the Historical research it entails.
I wish all of you the best in this special endeavor, and thanks for allowing me to dig in my virtual Templar treasury and provide my "two pence".
edited by: Dancingbear, May 17, 2007 - 12:52 PM | |
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BdeB
Thugicus Atlantii
Posts: 484Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 12:49 PM |
Quote:
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Master Sir BdB went most of his SCa life as a black robed Templar Serjant until he was knighted in the Society and then began wearing the White Habit. I believe Sir Christian did the same? |
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In the SCA, Knighthoood is a particular rank and title, therefore some of us that choose to occasionally play Templars but were not yet SCA knights, wore the black of a serjant. As Bran said, there are no SCA standards.
In the Atlantian Preceptory, the custom has always been that Knight brothers (KSCA) were the White habits, and Serjants (SCA non-knight level fights...called 'unbelts' often) wear the Black.
Sir Bran is correct that I chose never to wear the white surcoat of a Knight-brother until I had been dubbed a Knight of the Society.
Besides....Black is slimming!
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Bran
online
Milites Templi Draconis
Posts: 3703Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 12:32 PM |
One thing that has puzzled me about this, is why your Templars wear a habit that isn't white?
Your sentence is sorts inside out but if I got the gist of it:
Some Templars wear white, some wear black/brown.
There is no SCA rule on either way but the norm is to follow the SCA Rank structure which is Knights of the SCA, KSCA, whear white if portraying a Templar as Kngihts. If not a KSCA, then they typically wear black as a serjent of the Temple.
Other Orders are not as stringent on their garb colors and bend the historical dates to fit their needs.
[The company of Outremer is a seperate entity that is affiliated with the Templars (in our faux history) and is why we wear black and gold. Allows us to vary as needed. We follow strict Templar guidelines for Habit when the need arises.
Basically if you are a history nut but live within the SCA world, typically (not always), folks doing Templars will wear White if a Knight of the Society, Black if non-Knight, and sometimes brown if a sejent but non-fighter. Also Knights if the Society wear white belts, squires wear red. Knights wear gold chains about their necks but should not if wearing Templar kit as they then are sworn to two (2) masters (Our King and then the 'theoritcal-historical' Pope etc).
Master Sir BdB went most of his SCa life as a black robed Templar Serjant until he was knighted in the Society and then began wearing the White Habit. I believe Sir Christian did the same?
Shields as done here in the Middle are usually black over white, with or without red cross. Cross usually is displayed on the horizontal line of the black adn white as a Cross Formee or Patee. Yes there are others (crosses) but most of the Midrealm Templar-types I know do early period and it seems to fit nicely.
Variations are going to happen and in the end it is all fun and historical research.
_________________
A sure sign of a lunatic is that sooner or later, he brings up the Templars." -Umberto Eco
Legio Draconis Web Tyrant
Pentamer Regional Armoured Combat Marshal
Company of Outremer
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BdeB
Thugicus Atlantii
Posts: 484Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 08:23 AM |
There are quite a few Crusader/Templar houses out on the West Coast. Has any attempt been made to contact them re: the Pennsic Battle? | |
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Dancingbear
Plebian
Posts: 17Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 06:20 AM |
I thank you for your kind words.
As some suggested earlier, and posted before a reply to my last set of questions have been answered, I thought to post these representations of various Templar attire.
Both mine:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/haleysdad_2000/Slide1-1.jpg
And Hollywood's and artists:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/haleysdad_2000/Slide2-1.jpg
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NorseEkkill
Centurion
Posts: 144Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 06:02 AM |
You offended no one when you posted earlier Dancingbear. It was in context with what others were posting. I believe Bran was trying to bring the topic away from straying into the Zealotry with religious overtones. Maybe not so much hijacking, but the thread was changing course. Bran was directing it back to it's true purpose.
Please keep posting and I am impressed with your ability to allow for an open mind to continue to add to the conversation.
Gunnar my brother, right now I have llamelar made, an axe head to bind to wood with leather and rune, and pants to prepare for this glorious battle. What more would you suggest to have prepared before this day?
_________________
~Ekkill | |
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Dancingbear
Plebian
Posts: 17Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 05:23 AM |
Sir Bran, forgive me, as I stated in my first post, I was the relative new comer, and a non SCA participant at that. Seeing I didn't share a history with really anyone but Tyerrie, and then only through an exchange of information regarding the Templars, I'm pretty much the only lad capable of "hijacking" this forum.....
Lord Brannos and Lady Sue, I thank you for your kind words and invitation to continue to participate in these exchanges. I truly enjoy any exchange with regards to the Military Orders and the Crusades in general. Must be the Combat Infantryman background...of course it didn't hurt being raised Catholic....
One thing that has puzzled me about this, is why your Templars wear a habit that isn't white? Is it an SCA thing? As for crosses, there was no standard for them apparently, as if you left France and went to Spain the crosses changed, as it did when you went to the Outremer. There also appears to be a little Grand Master influences in choices of local crosses also. I have always liked either the equal distant arms, the cross moline, or the Greek Cross Potent Triangular as seen in Osprey Publishing's Knights Templar Warrior series.
I myself own several various Templar attires, ranging from the Sergeant, to a variety of Knight Brothers with the variety of crosses. To include all the mail I ever needed... 
I wish you all the best in this endeavor, and look forward to seeing the photos of the event. I feel like a Western Templar sending his wishes to the Brothers of the East on the eve of June 8, 1191.
Again my apologies to any and all of those I have offended.  | |
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Selimthelarge
Celtic Oar Puller
Posts: 214Posted:
May 17, 2007 - 04:54 AM |
Here is an artistic representation of a Seljuk Turk. They would have been the ruling power in Anatolia and modern-day Iran/Iraq at that point in history (right before they got pulverized by the Mongols).
http://www.allempires.com/empires/seljuk/seljuk_warriors_enh.jpg
I have no direct reference to them participating in the Horns of Hattin, but the clothing and armor are good references (based on other research). | |
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Denewulf
online
Plebian
Posts: 319Posted:
May 16, 2007 - 07:06 PM |
I don't have my axe...yet. But I have my hauberk (I prefer the mail over the lamellar). The Raven Banner is well on it's way to completion. Brother Gunnar, have you rallied anymore of our Northern kin?
I do hope to see many Saracen/Byzantine/Mid-Eastern persona kits on the field. Heck, I'm just looking forward to seeing so many great kits of that period in one place!
_________________
Cpt Denewulf Ivarsson, CSO
Squire to Sir Ivar Idthur-Drengr
Thegn-Skald of Haus Kriegsturm
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Gunnar
Media Regium Fanatica
Posts: 981Posted:
May 16, 2007 - 12:55 PM |
Hey you Varangians ! I hope you are making axes and are researching how to look appropriate to the time period for the gaurd. We have plenty of time to get ourselves in good shape. I will personally taunt any of you fine Norse / Saxon fellows that shows up as a ignoble Shirt-Warrior.
We bear the honor of the one true Emporeror, the honor of the true Latin Empire !
_________________
Syr Gunnar Redboar called Battle-Forger
Knight | |
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Brannos
Dux Draconis Magnus
Posts: 5096Posted:
May 16, 2007 - 12:40 PM |
First as the owner of the website I would like to thank everyone for having fun in this thread and I also looked at Bran's post yesterday and thought it was polite and to the point. Please continue having the great discussion here and please remember we have lots of good people in these forums and that for the past 5+ years I have not had to kick anyone off because even with ZEAL you can be polite.
BTW it would be great to get the original people, theme and times for this battle at Pennsic. Also maybe some pictures (DancingBear sounds like you might have a good number of these and insight on the subject if you are interested please post some of these up) lets look how to help people take part in this.
Also please remember this thread is here to help Tyerrie get people to participate in this battle. Please help him as it’s a big undertaking.
_________________
From the movie Remo Willians:(said to his master) Remo: Somtimes, you are a real pain in the ass.Master Chiun: That is because it is the shortest path to your brain. | |
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Sue
Caesar
Posts: 900Posted:
May 16, 2007 - 09:51 AM |
Dancingbear, please continue to post your thoughts. Your input as a templar in other scenerios is welcome and encouraged here. Your insights and opinions are valued.
_________________
Ad suum quemque aequum est quaestum esse callidum - It is only right that every one should be alive to his own advantage (Plautus)
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NorseEkkill
Centurion
Posts: 144Posted:
May 16, 2007 - 09:43 AM |
Quote:
| And I hope to see you at Pennsic enjoying the fun and battle when we are crushing the Saracens and their misguided Varangian Guard cannonfodder.
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Cannonfodder?!  Please continue to think of us as just that. Makes it easier for us if you underestimate your opponents.
May our day on the field be one that all can admire our spirit of brotherhood and arms. 
_________________
~Ekkill | |
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Bran
online
Milites Templi Draconis
Posts: 3703Posted:
May 16, 2007 - 08:36 AM |
It was never my intent to hijack your forum. I only wanted to share some information, or generate more interest in the concept of this undertaking. Forgive my intrusion.
=There were no fingers pointed. We ALL were becoming a tad zealous. Since you are not informed as to why, I shall say recently in some Kingdom an uproar was made due to playing out a sort of 'theme' about taking the Cross. We are trying to avoid such here. I did not point fingers and DancingBear, you should not feel anything was directed at yourself, it was to ALL of us, myself included. You did not hijack anything.
How does one portray the Military Orders properly with out the conviction and zeal that made them and most of all the Templars famous?
=You may portray your zeal by attending events in full kit and fight your heart out. Look the knight, act the knight, talk the knight <without offending others sensibilities>.
If people take offense in the jibes, than maybe not using the Orders as base lines for your units is in order.
=This is the wrong thread then for you. This is a simple pre-Pennsic Crusader Battle Thread. From Native Armenians to Iranians, from generic Crusaders to Egyptian Elites, from Kurdish Archers to Military Orders. The Crusades were not "always" about right or wrong or religion but more about lining ones pocket or purse. The thread was headed in the wrong direction or close to it. No offense taken, none meant ot be given on my part.
I shall refrain from any more public posts, and only go through you from now on, so that you may decide what is fitting and what is not.
=Post what you would like. I am not the POST NAZI but simply trying to balance out the thread and keep it on track. I am sorry you feel this was all about you when in fact it is about myself, Tyerrie and others [all my friends btw]. Simply trying not to overstep corpora rules [if they apply here?] and keep the site balanced on all issues.
If you'd like to post what you feel, go right ahead. I shall refrain from further intrusion on this thread and allow the website owner to determine right from wrong, or too far etc.. GL, buckle up. And I hope to see you at Pennsic enjoying the fun and battle when we are crushing the Saracens and their misguided Varangian Guard cannonfodder.
_________________
A sure sign of a lunatic is that sooner or later, he brings up the Templars." -Umberto Eco
Legio Draconis Web Tyrant
Pentamer Regional Armoured Combat Marshal
Company of Outremer
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